Vanguard voo

[chromatisity]

Hello,

 

I recently moved to Germany and i don't speak German yet.
My apologies.

I am new to the investment world and recently a colleague of mine introduced me to ETFs and more specifically the S&P 500.
The last couple of days i have done research to learn the basics.
I came to the conclusion that it's best to invest into the Vanguard voo.
However, i am not sure how to do that from Germany.
It seems that there is no private investor option in Vanguard's site if you are in Germany.
Maybe it's some EU regulation but the UK has the private investor option.
Any helps and tips are appreciated.
Dankeschön

[JFI]

Hi there!

 

Welcome to the forums!

 

Before we proceed, please answer the following questions:

 

1) What's your citizenship?

2) What's your tax status? Are you taxable (only) in Germany?

3) How long do you plan to stay in Germany?

[vn5p7aw58aw357pw]

vor 9 Stunden von chromatisity:

Maybe it's some EU regulation but the UK has the private investor option.

AFAIK Vanguard does not directly sell their mutural funds in to private investors in Germany. You can buy their Exchange Traded Funds though.

 

Closed thing to VOO seems to be the Vanguard FTSE North America UCITS ETF.

[nikolov]

This is the VOO's counterpart which is available in Europe:  Vanguard S&P 500 UCITS ETF (A1JX53 | IE00B3XXRP09)

[chromatisity]

16 hours ago, JFI said:

Hi there!

 

Welcome to the forums!

 

Before we proceed, please answer the following questions:

 

1) What's your citizenship?

2) What's your tax status? Are you taxable (only) in Germany?

3) How long do you plan to stay in Germany?

Bulgarian citizenship, i am working as a software developer and taxed under group 3 and i plan to stay long term.
Thank you for the help.

[chromatisity]

11 hours ago, nikolov said:

This is the VOO's counterpart which is available in Europe:  Vanguard S&P 500 UCITS ETF (A1JX53 | IE00B3XXRP09)

This one looks good but i it is distributing.
I think i need to get Accumulating ETF because i will invest small amounts of money every month.
And after 15-20 years, switch to Distributing

[Tenno]

It‘s a small step to this one

 

https://www.de.vanguard/web/cf/professionell/de/produktart/detailansicht/etf/9694/EQUITY/overview

[chromatisity]

I have so many questions...about taxes, which broker can i use to buy vanguard products and so on.
Onvista does not allow my nationality to open an account with them.

[HummelPummel]

vor 1 Stunde von chromatisity:

I have so many questions...about taxes, which broker can i use to buy vanguard products and so on.
Onvista does not allow my nationality to open an account with them.

 

There a loads of potential online banks that offer a brokering account in addition to a credit card / bank account.

 

DKB, ING, FlatEx, comdirect, Targo etc.

 

If you do have a regular and not too small net income (>2k €), opening an account should be easy. Even though some banks like DKB are quite picky when it comes to new customers. Just try one after the other and you should end up with an account at some point.

 

 

 

[chromatisity]

7 minutes ago, HummelPummel said:

 

There a loads of potential online banks that offer a brokering account in addition to a credit card / bank account.

 

DKB, ING, FlatEx, comdirect, Targo etc.

 

If you do have a regular and not too small net income (>2k €), opening an account should be easy. Even though some banks like DKB are quite picky when it comes to new customers. Just try one after the other and you should end up with an account at some point.

 

 

 

My income is significantly higher than that. I am looking to invest 1500-2000 euros monthly into the Vanguard S&P 500.
My current bank is Deutsche Bank but i don't want to use them as depot.
When i look at into the EU ETFS, they don't look good at all.
Low liquidity and many other problems.
This is why i want to buy the US one.

[HummelPummel]

vor 50 Minuten von chromatisity:

My income is significantly higher than that. I am looking to invest 1500-2000 euros monthly into the Vanguard S&P 500.
My current bank is Deutsche Bank but i don't want to use them as depot.
When i look at into the EU ETFS, they don't look good at all.
Low liquidity and many other problems.
This is why i want to buy the US one.

 

Why do you prefer a S&P 500 ETF over a (all) World ETF?

 

[chromatisity]

I don't know, the numbers on the VOO over many decades look better.

[HummelPummel]

vor 2 Stunden von chromatisity:

I don't know, the numbers on the VOO over many decades look better.

 

Before putting 2k€/month into an (as it seems) random ETF, you should invest some more time into your targeted asset allocation and evaluate respective risks accordingly. There might be not much information in that forum on English but there a plenty of English books about ETFs on amazon and co.

 

Even with an all-world ETF, you would have a high share of the US-Market (which seems to be your focus) without putting all your eggs into one basket (S&P500). But that is just my opinion.

[chromatisity]

1 hour ago, HummelPummel said:

 

Before putting 2k€/month into an (as it seems) random ETF, you should invest some more time into your targeted asset allocation and evaluate respective risks accordingly. There might be not much information in that forum on English but there a plenty of English books about ETFs on amazon and co.

 

Even with an all-world ETF, you would have a high share of the US-Market (which seems to be your focus) without putting all your eggs into one basket (S&P500). But that is just my opinion.

I will not start to invest tomorrow. I give myself couple of months of research before i act.
Thank you very much for the advice.
How does this ETF look to you?
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/EUNL.DE/performance?p=EUNL.DE
It's based on the world market and it has about 8.1% average early growth so far.

[HummelPummel]

vor 1 Stunde von chromatisity:

I will not start to invest tomorrow. I give myself couple of months of research before i act.
Thank you very much for the advice.
How does this ETF look to you?
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/EUNL.DE/performance?p=EUNL.DE
It's based on the world market and it has about 8.1% average early growth so far.

 

In general: You shouldn't focus too much on historic performance alone as this is no granted indicator for future development. 

 

Also you shouldn't ask me, but answer the question yourself first: why do you like that particular etf? 

 

One could argue that Blackrock as an experienced dominator in the market and the volume size is making you feel comfortable. Or that the TER and TD are decent. Or that 62% of titles are invested in us firms. Or that the IT sector has the biggest share sectorwise. 

Some people wouldn't feel comfortable that the focus is only on developed countries and large and mid cap companies. Also some people are just in different life situations and wouldn't invest in ETFs at all. 

 

You seem to be lacking substantial knowledge (no offense though). That's why you should inform yourself better and then ask more detailed questions. 

 

Also you should explain more about your motivation and background. That's why there are very informative stickys that should be read before opening such thread. 

 

 

[chromatisity]

4 hours ago, HummelPummel said:

 

In general: You shouldn't focus too much on historic performance alone as this is no granted indicator for future development. 

 

Also you shouldn't ask me, but answer the question yourself first: why do you like that particular etf? 

 

One could argue that Blackrock as an experienced dominator in the market and the volume size is making you feel comfortable. Or that the TER and TD are decent. Or that 62% of titles are invested in us firms. Or that the IT sector has the biggest share sectorwise. 

Some people wouldn't feel comfortable that the focus is only on developed countries and large and mid cap companies. Also some people are just in different life situations and wouldn't invest in ETFs at all. 

 

You seem to be lacking substantial knowledge (no offense though). That's why you should inform yourself better and then ask more detailed questions. 

 

Also you should explain more about your motivation and background. That's why there are very informative stickys that should be read before opening such thread. 

 

 

No offense taken.
As i said, i started to research this stuff 1 week ago.
It is a given and i don't know things.
My reasoning why i liked is that it seems it is liquid enough, i work in the IT sector (i believe it will only become more and more important in people's lives), so IT heavy ETF is not a problem.
Being focused on only developed countries seems like i would get stability and not crazy growth, which is fine.
I am not looking to get rich in the next 5-10 years.
I am looking to invest in the next 20-25 years so i can retire in my early-mid 50's (live off of 3-4% dividends).
In the next couple of decades, Germany will probably increase the retirement age to 70.
I have no desire to go to work with a walker.
From what i can see, the average growth rate over time is 7-8%.
If i invest 1500 euros per month for the next 25 years, with compound interest, it should be well above 1 million euros.
3-4% dividends on that sum will be around my current net salary.
Of course this is all theoretical and assumes a lot of things.
But this is my plan.

[niehle]

vor 8 Stunden von chromatisity:

From what i can see, the average growth rate over time is 7-8%.
If i invest 1500 euros per month for the next 25 years, with compound interest, it should be well above 1 million euros.
3-4% dividends on that sum will be around my current net salary.
Of course this is all theoretical and assumes a lot of things.
But this is my plan.

Those assumptions are too high. And you forgot to account for inflation and taxes. You probably won't get 3-4% dividend. You invest in the same sector you are working in.

 

Maybe you should start with the basics:

* how high is your savings rate?

* how stable is your job?

* do you have an emergency fund and is it high enough?

* are you insured?

* how high is your risk tolerance? Can you cope with -50% on your ETF, even if it has a 6-figure amount?

* how are your plans for the next years? marriage? kids? flat/house?

 

Choosing an ETF and a broker is a step for way later.

 

[HummelPummel]

Also your retirement plan would not work like that as the mentioned ETF is not distributing but accumulating - so you would need to shift your portfolio at some point as it is way too much risk to do once you reach your retirement age.

Also your retirement plan would 100% rely on your investment in the stock-market? I mean, I fully get your idea, but please be aware of the huge risk you are willing to take in a life situation you are usually looking for minimal risk.

[chromatisity]

9 hours ago, niehle said:

Those assumptions are too high. And you forgot to account for inflation and taxes. You probably won't get 3-4% dividend. You invest in the same sector you are working in.

 

Maybe you should start with the basics:

* how high is your savings rate?

* how stable is your job?

* do you have an emergency fund and is it high enough?

* are you insured?

* how high is your risk tolerance? Can you cope with -50% on your ETF, even if it has a 6-figure amount?

* how are your plans for the next years? marriage? kids? flat/house?

 

Choosing an ETF and a broker is a step for way later.

 

Job security is not an issue.
It takes a week for a senior programmer to find a job.
I have emergency money for about x3 months of my outgoing costs.

If you are talking about health insurance, that is mandatory in Germany. I am using AOK.

I can cope with temporary loss of 50% shares value.
But you know..if it's the situation for more than 5 years and it's close to my retirement, it would be bad.
The question is, how likely it is that by the end i will have less money compared to just putting it in a savings account at the bank?

I am divorced with 1 child (3 years old).
I am planing to buy an apartment this year.
I live in Saxony and properties are pretty cheap (100k for 65-70sq meter apartment).
The mortgage is the same amount as the rent i am paying.
It makes no sense to be renting for a long period, better to invest that money in the property.

Until the end of the year i would have saved 10% for the down payment and from the next year i could start investing in ETFs.
Do you know a good online course on this topic?
Something like SkillShare or services like that?

 

8 hours ago, HummelPummel said:

Also your retirement plan would not work like that as the mentioned ETF is not distributing but accumulating - so you would need to shift your portfolio at some point as it is way too much risk to do once you reach your retirement age.

Also your retirement plan would 100% rely on your investment in the stock-market? I mean, I fully get your idea, but please be aware of the huge risk you are willing to take in a life situation you are usually looking for minimal risk.

 

I read so many articles and heard so many people say that investing in good ETFs have the lowest amount of risk possible.
Maybe this is why i got so optimistic about it.
Other retirement funds generally don't allow you to take out the money whenever you want.
I don't want my money locked until i am 62 years old.

[niehle]

About insurance i was takingh not about the mandatory health insurance but rather:

* Haftpflichtversicherung (Liability insurance)

* Berufsunfähigkeitsversicherung (Total permanent disability insurance)

* since you have a small child: Risikolebensversicherung

 

> The question is, how likely it is that by the end i will have less money compared to just putting it in a savings account at the bank?

Not very likely, I don't want to dicourage you from investing in ETF but rather challenge some of your assumptions.

 

> Until the end of the year i would have saved 10% for the down payment and from the next year i could start investing in ETFs.

With more money saved you could get a better credit (less interest).

 

In generell you could read about asset allocation, i.e. how much of a percentage in cash/property/ETF etc.

 

>Do you know a good online course on this topic?

 

Most of the ressources I know are either in German (which you don't speak) or they are for the US and can't be used here (or only partially).

 

[chromatisity]

36 minutes ago, niehle said:

About insurance i was takingh not about the mandatory health insurance but rather:

* Haftpflichtversicherung (Liability insurance)

* Berufsunfähigkeitsversicherung (Total permanent disability insurance)

* since you have a small child: Risikolebensversicherung

 

> The question is, how likely it is that by the end i will have less money compared to just putting it in a savings account at the bank?

Not very likely, I don't want to dicourage you from investing in ETF but rather challenge some of your assumptions.

 

> Until the end of the year i would have saved 10% for the down payment and from the next year i could start investing in ETFs.

With more money saved you could get a better credit (less interest).

 

In generell you could read about asset allocation, i.e. how much of a percentage in cash/property/ETF etc.

 

>Do you know a good online course on this topic?

 

Most of the ressources I know are either in German (which you don't speak) or they are for the US and can't be used here (or only partially).

 

I don't know anything about those kind of insurances.
It is something i need to learn about because In Eastern Europe no one has insurances like that.
I am learning German every day and hope to be able to get to a decent level in the next 6 months.
I was thinking to pay off the property as much as possible but then i was thinking that interest rates are so low in Germany that it makes little sense to allocate all resources.
I will certainly lose more money by renting and saving money to get a lower loan than taking the loan with the minimal amount of down payment.

[Nachdenklich]

vor 43 Minuten von chromatisity:

I was thinking to pay off the property as much as possible but then i was thinking that interest rates are so low in Germany that it makes little sense to allocate all resources.

You seem to be a wise man!

 

vor 44 Minuten von chromatisity:

I don't know anything about those kind of insurances.
It is something i need to learn about because In Eastern Europe no one has insurances like that.

Do people in Eastern Europe survive? Without all these insurances?

(I am talking about all the people working for insurance companies.)

 

 I survived in Germany without a Berufsunfähigkeitsversicherung. Perhaps you might survive as well?

 

 

[chromatisity]

1 hour ago, Nachdenklich said:

You seem to be a wise man!

 

Do people in Eastern Europe survive? Without all these insurances?

(I am talking about all the people working for insurance companies.)

 

 I survived in Germany without a Berufsunfähigkeitsversicherung. Perhaps you might survive as well?

 

 

I don't have a car or a driving licence.
I don't think it's very likely that i can injure someone so badly or make damages that it will cost me a lot of money.

[HummelPummel]

vor 12 Stunden von chromatisity:

I don't have a car or a driving licence.
I don't think it's very likely that i can injure someone so badly or make damages that it will cost me a lot of money.

 

Damage to others is covered by a Privathaftpflichtversicherung and is higly recommended. Only costs like 40€/year.

Berufsunfähigkeitsversicherung covers potential disabilities (e.g. caused by accidents or mental/pysical illness) and associated loss of income.

Privathaftpflicht should be mandatory! Berufsunfähigkeitsversicherung is optional (I dont have one, but many people with similiar income like you do).

 

[chromatisity]

On 6/26/2019 at 11:43 AM, HummelPummel said:

 

Damage to others is covered by a Privathaftpflichtversicherung and is higly recommended. Only costs like 40€/year.

Berufsunfähigkeitsversicherung covers potential disabilities (e.g. caused by accidents or mental/pysical illness) and associated loss of income.

Privathaftpflicht should be mandatory! Berufsunfähigkeitsversicherung is optional (I dont have one, but many people with similiar income like you do).

 

I have a specific tax question.
If i start investing now and i leave Germany later, i still have to pay taxes in Germany.
Even though i am not investing into German companies, just because the ETF provider is German.
I don't think that is very fair.
Can i invest with a broker abroad to prevent this?